I got a call from a disturbed Realtor not long ago saying he had had an inspection on a listing and thought there might be things a home inspector should never say on a report.
His call was asking if these things were appropriate and what could be done about them.
"What things?", I asked. This is a very large house and only fourteen years old.
He began reading from the report. After each point he asked me what my thoughts were.
1. "On houses this size and quality I have seen slate roofs." My answer was, "So?" And I have seen houses with metal roofs. What does that mean? Can the structure there even support slate? Probably not. I said the comment was out of line, and outside anything any home inspector association suggests a report should say.
2. "This house is so large I think it needs 9 HVAC units. There are only 7." My answer was, "How does he know that?" HVAC needs are not simple to calculate. A house this size would demand a computer calculation. In the olden days the rule of thumb used to be 1 ton of HVAC unit for every 750 square feet of house. Or something around that. This is no more. Today we have higher ceilings, bigger (and better) windows and doors, more square feet of "open" area, and so forth. The need calculation depends on such things as cubic area in square feet, linear length and size of HVAC ducts, numbers of windows, U-factors of those windows based on the sides of the houses they are placed on, number and placement of registers, and much, much more. It is a hugely difficult problem. Nobody, not even a home inspector, could possibly make that statement, but especially on a home inspection report. I said the comment was out of line, and outside anything any home inspector association suggests a report should say.
3. "The electric panel boxes are old and should be brought up to modern code." I have no idea what he means by this. The electrical is not "old," it might not have a modern twist like AFCI breakers, but there is no demand that panels be brought up to meet the latest requirements unless some changes have been made that demand it. If that was the case people would be changing the electrical in their houses every year. The National Electric Code can make as many as 1000 changes or so from year to year, and can revamp completely every three or so. Electricians could NEVER keep up with it all working daily from house to house, much less homeowners knowing what would have to be done! I said the comment was out of line, and outside anything any home inspector association suggests a report should say.
4. "The front stoop has settled and needs to be lifted up to meet County code." This is Northern Virginia! Most stoops have settled a bit! Some much worse than others to be sure, but I don't know what County code demands about that, and certainly don't know why the home inspector is telling people what to do with their houses. When I asked how much it had settled he said about 1". I said the comment was out of line, and outside anything any home inspector association suggests a report should say.
Asking me what could be done, I suggested he ask the inspector his association membership number and call them asking if this is what they require of their home inspectors. (I know they do not require this sort of thing.) I suggested he file a complaint. Tell them I said the comments were out of line, and outside anything any home inspector association suggests a report should say.
Subsequent visits by the contractually-required professionals revealed that the roof was in good shape and structurally could not support slate, the HVAC might be able to get away with only six units (!) so the seven were just fine, the electrical comment was ridiculous and the County said they had no such front stoop requirement.
My recommendation: a home inspector's job is to observe and report. Saying what kind of roof is present and its condition is really the only relevant information a home inspector report should contain. Good commentary on a report NEVER hurts. In my opinion the home inspector on this house was OUT OF LINE, and said things on the report outside anything any home inspector association suggests a report should say.
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC 
Based in Bristow, serving all of Northern Virginia.
Office (703) 330-6388 Cell (703) 585-7560
I'm putting shelves in my basement - AGAINST THE WALL WHERE THE OLD/FORMER FRONT STOOP SETTLED AGAINST IT * the steps are gone and there is a porch there now....however, I'm not rebuilding the front foundation wall to take care of the small cracks
Here...though have not seen it in quite a while...."to code" for electric means gets rid of the fuses and 60 amp service...settling stoops....hmmmm......safety hazard invented by FHA..
Wow - this is really interesting because I think we've all probably seen some of this from time to time. But I never put those comments in the context of " outside anything any home inspector association suggests a report should say."
Cracks happen Wallace. But if you eliminate the reason for their development you should be fine.
S&D - but unless there is an event (like remodeling) that demands newer electrical service, no change to those old boxes is required, albeit desired.
I see them differently than a realtor would Margaret. I am familiar with how associations suggest reports should read!
In Texas the real estate commision governs not only what gets checked and how, but how it gets reported. Not much room for personal comments/observations on the written report. Most inspectors will tell the buyers this kind of information in person, but not include it in a writeen report.
Here the state has requirements about what things get reported, but I don't know how a bureaucrat who is not a home inspector can say how things get reported Dena. I know Texas has its own requirements though!
DANG. Lost my comment. The electricity blinked. There appear to be some mysterious forces at work today. The battery in my car is dead. It snowed on March 25th. Now the electricity is blinking.
As for the home inspector, he needs to learn how to FOCUS, FOCUS, FOCUS.
I noticed long ago that the biggest problem that folks have is that they talk too much. That covers politicians, real estate agents and home inspectors.
Politicians, well you know. No matter what comes out of their mouths will be regurgitated by the opposition ad nauseum.
Freal estate agents. They can literally talk themselves out of sales simply by talking long after the sale is made.
Home Inspectors - Stock to the FACTS. Citing to code is risky. WHICH CODE??? Today or when the house was built?
All agreed Lenn. I will verbally say something like the roof looks original to the house and given that it could last another so many years, but I also say that such a prediction is entirely subjective and really should not be relied on. But I would never put that in the report. The report might say the roof shingles are original or something like that.
Recommending a slate roof? That is indeed odd. Particularly with the weight differential between an asphalt shingle roof and a slate roof! Makes you wonder why he would focus on things like that.
I wondered too Kathryn! His clients got the idea that the roof was insufficiently protected!
Code????? The question is which code is he referring too. Code requirements are generally when repalcement occurs, or a complete rehab.
I don't know Susan, and didn't when I first heard the report. It might be he doesn't either!
This is a good subject...Can an inspector be told where to focus and where not? Jay, comment on this and whether you would allow direction
Richie - opinions are fine, but perhaps should not be reported upon. Some of this is not opinion, and telling people what they must to to their house (like raising a stoop) is outside inspector purview.
The available ones are available for a reason usually Gary.
I've seen things like this before and I've even had a home inspector tell buyers that this home is not going get approved for their loan. WAY outside his scope of confidence.
Wow! Yes, there certainly are plenty of things a Home Inspector should never say. Here's one that happened to me a few years ago....
I once had a Home Inspector say: "The water heater is old and the Seller needs to replace it before Closing."
- The water heater was 11 years old, but it was functioning just fine with no visible signs of failure. It turns out that the recommendation for replacement was solely based on the manufacturing date of the water heater. Something like: "The water heater is 11 years old. The normal operational life of a water heater is 8-10 years suggesting that this unit may be nearing the end of its functional life." could have been said to make the point that the unit is pretty old, without pointing fingers of responsibility or declaring a perfectly fine water heater to be bad.
- The negotiations as to who might be responsible for replacing a water heater that is actually bad is between Buyer and Seller. The Home Inspector has NO part in this. Their role is to report what they find about the condition of the home.
- The Buyer had just been given a false belief that the Seller somehow owed them a new water heater.
This inappropriate act caused a lot of stress on the transaction.
Marc - these things were in fact WAY outside his purview.
Bill - a water heater's age depends on the temperature it is kept at and how many people are in the house using it! A single person uses less hot water than a family of 6. Age isn't irrelevant, of course, but use is very important too. That is undue stress.
I have never seen a report with that much personal opinion. You did provide great information as to who to contact in such cases.
WOW! That's all I can say. Besides FACTS, FACTS, & More Facts! Sometimes when we try to add our 2 cents in, we can mess up a good thing.
The seller had to contact those people Chuck! It cost money to prove the obvious.
Fortunately the deal flew but this report commentary cause a huge wrinkle, Graziella.
Jay: You hope that someone (his association) had a few words with him. As to code comments, on one one my listings, this one agent kept coming around with clients and each time he commented, "but it's not up to code". Well, it was built in the 70s and it was up to code then. He kept talking his own buyers out of buying it.
Well done. Hopefully the agent is able to rectify the issue.
Thanks for sharing this post.
Jay, outside anything any home inspector association suggests a report should say. How many times I have felt the very same way. The inspection can make or break a sale and it should always be factual without opinion. Good post.
Hella - very few houses out there are "up to code." An inspector can say that all day!
Anthony - I think it was all satisfied, but don't know about what he did with the association.
Sometimes how things are said is important Mark. I agree. But some things should not be said at all!
Well Said Jay
Scott W Johnson
Marindependent Insurance Services
Marin County California
Thanks Scott. There are many things that could be said by an inspector, but these are what that realtor brought up!
I think new people trying to get into the Home Inspection business needs to constantly remind themselves to stay within the standard SOP's for their certifying body. Here in Florida, there is a State required SOP that must be given and/or available to every client. Common sense must be used when talking about codes and such, and try not to impress with statements that are ridiculous. Codes change all the time and what was appropriate for the period the house was built could be much different than at the time of the sale and inspection. Sheesh! There are good and bad in every profession... I hate hearing about someone having a bad experience with an obviously inexperienced or over zealous inspector and everybody piling on. His business success will directly be reflected by the quality of work he performs!
I don't think it is appropriate for an inspector to put a price tag on things he thinks should be done. I think it should stay with this needs to be done and then the buyer can shop for prices.
Fred - did you not know that a fourteen year old electrical panel box needs to be updated to modern codes? This guy was a bit over the top!
I agree Liz. I never do that, begging off nearly every inspection! And I really don't know!
I think it was very unfair too Tracy. And not up to the standards a home inspector should meet.
I agree, Inspectors should just state the facts. The commentary is not only uneccessary, but also can be inaccurate.
Jay, Thanks for posting this. I always enjoy and learn from you home inspectors! Great post!
Probably true with both your examples here Yvonne. Unnecessary and inaccurate.
W&J - great! And I am glad you stop by!
Great post as always Jay. Some inspectors like to the the Inspector God and tell the clients all sorts of things. Never a good thing.
That is one thing I will never aspire to Paula. Maybe the Inspector Student, but never god...
Jay , Great post. Thanks for clarifying what a home inspectors role is in the purchase of a property. The most telling remarks are "a home inspector's job is to observe and report. Good commentary on a report NEVER hurts." I've had inspectors make remarks similar to those you reported, and, amazingly enough, I cannot in good conscience recommend that inspector to be used for any transaction I am involved with. Thanks again.
I wonder about his motivation in saying all of that - quite unnecessary.
Bill - thank you for your kind words! That is the nut of it all - observing and reporting what we observe.
Jill - I think to justify what I am told was an extremely high fee!
Exactly - Opinion should not be a part of a home inspection report nor the health a a palm tree or the fact there there are stepping stones in the back yard that could be a liability. I have seen many of these and wish all home inspectors could remember what their job is and it is not to solicit for handiman work either. Thank you
Gayle - opinions are fine, but within the standards set by the state or association.
Hi Jay,
One inspector in Greensboro suggested that the location of a furnace was a hazard, and that in spite of the fact it had passed City Inspections/Permits 15 years ago, he told the buyer NOT TO TRUST THAT!
The first time buyer wanted the system and ductwork moved.
He quoted an IRC code for HVAC that he said would override whatever a city inspector said!
After much investigation by the City Mechanical Dept, 2 HVAC experts, plus a complaint from me, he retracted his comment and apologized to the buyer. By that time, the buyer lost all faith in the home, the inspector and inspection report. We closed, but the drama was unnecessary.
That's really dangerous ground to tread Athina. Not to trust the city permits, or the IRC of the moment - personally I would not have gone there!
Oh, Jay! This is why I love to have you do my home inspections. You'll never put anything stupid or gauche in a report.
Dreaded words from a buyer..."I don't want you to recommend an inspector" I spent 3 hours at a home inspection once with a guy who did inspections part time...he was so paranoid that he inspected the house twice and wrote the craziest things!
Jay -- we need a clone here in So. New Hampshire. We have some good home inspectors, but every once and awhile we run into someone like the one you evaluated.
Jay, how I wish you were in my market. I recently got an inspector who said moisture was detected around the toilets. The buyer requested all the rings be replaced. We agreed but when the plumber came out, there wasn't any moisture. I was there and witnessed it but once the toilets were off we had to replace the ring. Not sure what the problem was but it wasn't due to a leak of any type.
Well, thanks Pat. And I hope I never do too!
Linda - part time? Why did they pick him?
Joan - I am sure they are in every market. I think there are over 100 home inspectors in Northern Virginia.
It might be because the cleaned the bathrooms that morning Tammie. Typically moisture around a toilet is isolated to a single area, so if it was all around it probably wasn't any leaking. The fix was like killing an ant with a hammer.
Jay that is a list of things one might not want to say for sure. I wonder how long this person has been doing inspections and he (she) may need to go back for some more training.
They would not give me his name James. Maybe they thought I would go after him and his association.
Jay, He used that four letter word that will get almost every inspector to go bonkers ;) As for opinion we all use opinion we just hope it is professional opinion ;)
I think that observations are important. Personal opinion on matters outside their scope, not so much. Opinions should be limited to recommendations on further inspection, if the buyer deems it necessary.
For example, your HVAC situation. The inspector *may* have an opinion on the adequacy of the HVAC system(s), but truly, that should be limited to an observation/comment with a recommendation that the HVAC system be inspected by a licensed HVAC company. Since he is NOT a licensed HVAC professional, his *opinion* on the adequacy of the system should not come into play.
I like professional, straight forward inspectors that state the facts. I dislike inspectors who are alarmists, and create drama every step of the way.
You mean slate Don? That has five letters. Opinions matter, but it depends on which we offer! That's totally clear, right?
Oh, maybe "code...?"
Lori - you hit a nail that most inspectors would agree with! There are a few alarmists out there though. This guy's HVAC opinions were lunacy.
Interesting. I do agree this inspector has made comments that are ridiculous, as you point out. However I somewhat disagree with your statement;
"outside anything any home inspector association suggests a report should say."
In the context of what this inspector said, yes that is fairly accurate, in a broader sense, I think much less so. The SoP, which every one the inspector chooses to or must follow, is the minimum, as I know that you are aware. The SoP is also deliberately vague to allow for latitude in reporting. I certainly can report on the all of the things this inspector chose to make comments on, there is nothing that says I can not. That it is forbidden. Of course this inspector will find doing business and keeping business very difficult.
Over the years, I see that many inspectors seem to fail to understand the role they play. It has been a learning experience for me. It still is. We are there to infom our clients and protect their interest through accurate and unbiased information. We can not make up their minds for them, as they so often ask us to do. We can only provide the tools to that end.
The key word is "suggest," Jim. And yes, it's a learning experience. I agree - any inspector can say anything. But no inspector is an island and silly comments reflect on everyone. Have you ever said, "I have seen a different roof on this kind of house" before? It's silly. And outside of anything an association would suggest be said on a report.
My point is that associations and SoPs do not make suggestions on how or what we say. Which is a good thing. SoP defines on what must be minimally inspected and reported. I also agree that these types of things reflect on all of us. This inspector will not be in business long.
I understood your point to be that I was wrong to say that these kinds of comments were "outside anything any home inspector association suggests a report should say." I still think they are. No association would suggest such comments are okay or anything of the sort. Nor would they suggest these are simply opinions and that any opinion is okay. These are just silly statements. Stupid would not be far off.
This particular inspector is infamous. I get calls from realtors about him often. This post was because of two calls I got back to back the same week.
He has been around a long time, is a huge ASHI advocate and trashes anyone not so affiliated. You cannot talk with him, he is so arrogant. Between you and me, he is the reason I have not joined ASHI. It seems too militant an organization for me. Does ASHI suggest these kinds of comments be made? No. Does it say it's alright? Of course not. Do I think ASHI has meetings making suggestions as to what should and should not go on reports? No. But these comments meet no SOP.
But, as I say, nobody is an island and this stupidity, unfortunately, reflects on others. Even me.
Amazing he is still in business. I can see why you get calls. It must frustrate the people involved in the deals he inspects. I do certainly agree no association, no reasonable person would endorse such commments. Stupid is, I think, a fair assessment of his reporting style.
Now, My Best Pen Pal's Dad, if I was up near you and you were the Pres, I would consider ASHI! But not here.
Sorry, my term was up almost two years ago :( You'd like our group. Great bunch, no egos. We have a lot fun!
I think the group members are relevant to who joins and does not join. Too bad. There are those who think if you aren't ASHI connected you aren't "certified!" That's called "good press!"
I've been certifiable for years ;)
We all have our niche!