What I'm Seeing Now

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A Wall Oven And A Range Can't Share The Same Circuit, Even On A Flip!

If I can, I like to look behind and under things, especially on a flipped house!  And what I saw this time surprised even me - a wall oven and a range can't share the same circuit, even on a flip! 

Yes, some Flippers try to get away with stuff.  But when it's dangerous and so very wrong a client needs to know!

It started like this.  I tried the anti-tip on a range.  Then I looked behind.  Which lead me to the wall ovens.  I moved the doors on a high double wall oven.  The top one was so high the buyer was complaining.  As I opened the door the unit came out of the new, and very pretty, cabinet created for it by Flipper!

OK, so we know Flipper might not install stuff right.

And this wasn't right!

Literally I could have pulled it out from the wall.

And, in addition to that, being so high made it especially dangerous.

Too easy to tip!

But I knew it had to have new wiring as it is probably in a new spot in the kitchen.

Looking underneath I saw that it is plugged into a large cord!

I expected that large cord to be plugged into a wall receptacle.

Never seeing a wall oven plugged into a wall receptacle I was even more  intrigued, the radar further extended.

So we investigated further.

And veeeola!

What did my little eye spy behind the range?

That the cord was not plugged in at all!

IT WAS ALL WIRE NUTTED TOGETHER!

The gray wire coming out of the wall is from the circuit breaker panel box ...

... and the black on the left is the wall oven ...

... which is connected to the cable running to the receptacle (merely laying loose on the floor) servicing the kitchen range!

At least they used electrical tape for safety.  At least...

This is the view behind the range that stimulated this little journey!

Welps, ain't it juuust perrrty?

This is the view I looked at that set me off. 

The hip bone is connected to the thigh bone, so I had to look further.

At first I asked if they thought there would be an anti-tip device behind the range (I didn't think so).

And when it dutifully leaned forward I pulled it out so we could see.

Oh, further, that wall receptacle inside the kitchen cabinet has a handmade plug in it. 

After a little experimentation we found that it services the exhaust hood over the range!

Yep, that's how you do that too!

That was just one little gem we found in this house. 

There was no breaker for the wall oven, and an old one for the range, so they simply tapped it for more fun and games.

Cute, cute, cute!  AND DANGEROUS!

My recommendation:  I am thinking of installing the TV show Flipper's theme song on my phone as a ring tone.  It would be appropriate.  And maybe play that over the phone when people call for home inspections of flips.

Buyers have to be EXTREMELY circumspect when purchasing a flip of any type.  It's not because they are all bad, and I have gone to great lengths to blog about the good ones.  It's just that people are buying everything the Flipper has done.  As I always say, if what you CAN see is frightening, what you CAN'T see has to follow.  Because the hip bone IS connected to the thigh bone.

 

 

Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC  

Based in Bristow, serving all of Northern Virginia.

Office (703) 330-6388   Cell (703) 585-7560

www.jaymarinspect.com


Comment balloon 50 commentsJay Markanich • March 24 2013 05:33AM

Comments

Good morning Jay,

You have found another Flipper afoul - this is one creature that needs to be on the endangered list, easily done once potential buyers are shown items like this by professionals such as yourself.  I love the idea of the flipper theme for your ring-tone - cute!

Posted by Lisa Von Domek, ....Experience Isn't Expensive.... It's Priceless! (Lisa Von Domek Team) over 5 years ago

GEEZ!  This is downright frightening.  I sure hopes the agent does their job and makes sure that SAFETY matters, especially electrical are made right. 

Posted by Lenn Harley, Real Estate Broker - Virginia & Maryland (Lenn Harley, Homefinders.com, MD & VA Homes and Real Estate) over 5 years ago

Good morning Jay,

Something further to look for and will be looking today.

Make yourself a great day.

Posted by Raymond E. Camp, Licensed Real Estate Salesperson Greater Rochester (Howard Hanna Real Estate Services) over 5 years ago

Wow, very tricky & dangerous. Definitely did not have an electrician on their team for this flip.

Posted by Lyn Sims, Schaumburg IL Real Estate (RE/MAX Suburban) over 5 years ago

Those electrical surprises can really come back to haunt you. You just never know what you will find and safety needs to come first. Good post Jay.

Posted by Debbie Reynolds, Your Dedicated Clarksville TN Real Estate Agent (Platinum Properties) over 5 years ago

Lisa - thinking about it.  Right now I have "Let It Be" by the Beatles.  That one was free.  I bet Flipper costs!

Lenn - this was in Front Royal and on my way home they called me to ask if I could come back and look at another house around the corner!  I couldn't, having to meet a builder in Chantilly and he was anxiously waiting for me.  This house was a joke.  I'll return on Tuesday though!

Raymond - send me the photos behind the range!

Lyn - this was no electrician!  Flippers can do everything, as you know.

Thanks Debbie.  Another dangerous day on the job!

Posted by Jay Markanich, Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia (Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC) over 5 years ago

Here is one: A Kitchen had microwave, refrigerator, kitchen plugs was also linked the family bathroom and another set of house plugs in the bedroom - there was an outlet on the back deck that was tied into the master bedroom using extension cord wire...   :(  This was a flip that my daughter purchased...We have been fixing this stuff ever since - inspector noted the plug on the deck not working correctly (not GFI) and we knew we would have to fix but who knew how everything was tied together, that wasnt noted in the inspection - I am not sure it would have been discovered ?? ...

 

Posted by Linda Edelwich, Glasotnbury Office's #1 Top Producing Agent-not on (William Raveis Real Estate) over 5 years ago

Proves once again the old saying - "Nothing is impossible to a sufficiently talented fool".

Posted by Jim Palmer, Washington County, Florida (Chipola Realty - Chipley Office (850) 638-2777) over 5 years ago

That is some scary outlet or circuit breaker use. An accident waiting to happen.

Posted by Noah Seidenberg, Chicagoland and Suburbs (800) 858-7917 (Coldwell Banker) over 5 years ago

I find that sort of thing all the time Linda.  Your point is so well taken.  This is the stuff that happens when non-electricians are doing electrical work.  On the house in this post, the new bathroom GFI turned off the dining and living rooms!

That is a good saying Jim!  Some things we wish would be impossible.

If it is waiting to happen, it's not an accident Noah!  I'm tweaking you, of course!

Posted by Jay Markanich, Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia (Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC) over 5 years ago

Jay, flippers can do some strange things and also some nice things, but they should at the least give some proper attention to the plumbing and electrical items in a home and spare the short cuts there

Posted by Ed Silva, Central CT Real Estate Broker Serving all equally (RE/MAX Professionals, CT 203-206-0754 ) over 5 years ago

They should use professionals for that Ed.  Period.

Posted by Jay Markanich, Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia (Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC) over 5 years ago
It's astounding what some folks do to save so very few dollars. I guess they figure its no skin off their nose if a problem pops up down the road.
Posted by Ralph Janisch ABR CRS Broker, Selling Northwest Houston to good people like you! (Janisch & Co.) over 5 years ago

And the problem popping up could be a huge fire J&R!

Posted by Jay Markanich, Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia (Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC) over 5 years ago

The old flying splice trick.  Oy vey!  Shame on the electrician (if they had one) who put that mess together.  I've seen it more than once.  Baseboard heaters and window air conditioners are another great location for those splices. 

Posted by Mike Cooper, Your Winchester, VA Real Estate Sales Pro (Cornerstone Business Group Inc) over 5 years ago

WOW! how scary...and dangerous! I just love how many people don't care anymore...

Posted by Heather Bowman, Heather Bowman, Michigan Realtor (Complete Realty, LLC) over 5 years ago

At least it was a 50amp circuit Mike!     ;>)

This guy didn't care Heather.  Not my house, is the attitude.

Posted by Jay Markanich, Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia (Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC) over 5 years ago
We just installed a wall oven - thank heavens we did it right.
Posted by Hella Mitschke Rothwell, Hawaii & California Real Estate Broker ((831) 626-4000) over 5 years ago

And you should be glad Hella!

Posted by Jay Markanich, Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia (Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC) over 5 years ago

Jay, at times, to save money, a job is not done by a professional - and we know the results....they are serious!

Posted by Praful Thakkar, Andover, MA: Andover Luxury Homes For Sale (LAER Realty Partners) over 5 years ago

Good afternoon, Jay. That is one of the reasons I run all 4 burners and the ovens simultaneously. Oftentimes the breaker gives...

Posted by TeamCHI - Complete Home Inspections, Inc., Home Inspectons - Nashville, TN area - 615.661.029 (Complete Home Inspections, Inc.) over 5 years ago

That was bad enough to dial 911 just for reading the post.

Posted by Scott Seaton Jr. Bourbonnais Kankakee IL Home Inspector, The Home Inspector With a Heart! (SLS Home Inspections-Bradley Bourbonnais Kankakee Manteno) over 5 years ago

Stunning! The electrical tape must make everything okay. Oh and I'm sure there were permits for all the work. 

Posted by James Quarello, Connecticut Home Inspector (JRV Home Inspection Services, LLC) over 5 years ago

I would think that no self-respecting licensed electrician was anywhere near that flip.  I would love to know how old flipper responded to your report!

Posted by Kathryn Maguire, Serving Chesapeake, Norfolk, VA Beach (GreatNorfolkHomes.com (757) 560-0881) over 5 years ago

Jay-anything that involves electricity always frightens me.  It is so important to hire an inspector when buying any home. 

Posted by Kathy Streib, Home Stager - Palm Beach County,FL -561-914-6224 (Room Service Home Staging) over 5 years ago

Jay, even if they PROMISE to never use both appliances at once---cross their fingers hope to die type promise? :)

Posted by Charles Buell, Seattle Home Inspector (Charles Buell Inspections Inc.) over 5 years ago

And in the end, Praful, they don't save money!

I do too Michael.  In this case I didn't even turn anything on!  Fear rules.

Scott - thanks!  What did they say?  Do you need an address?

Doesn't the permit permit this if the permitted electric tape is permanently applied Jim?  OH!  I'm late for my perm.

 

Posted by Jay Markanich, Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia (Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC) over 5 years ago

Kathryn - not sure he saw it!  They left and immediately went to another house in the neighborhood and we are scheduled for Tuesday!

Kathy - if we understand it the mystery disappears.  But heck, who understands electricity?

If they stick a needle in their eye Charlie.  I'll get back to you after I see what they say.

Posted by Jay Markanich, Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia (Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC) over 5 years ago
Jay I really wanted to stop reading half way through because the carelessness was too much, but I kept reading as if I were the buyer and I was shocked and appalled.
Posted by Charita Cadenhead, Serving Jefferson and Shelby Counties (Alabama) (Keller Williams Realty) over 5 years ago

Charita - glad you hung in there!  We were appalled too, all of us present!

Posted by Jay Markanich, Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia (Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC) over 5 years ago

Jay, I try to avoid selling flips for this reason.  If a buyer likes one I remind the buyer that every improvement was made with a quick profit motive in mind, using the cheapest materials and labor.  Yes, I know that's not always true, but they understand I exaggerate. 

Posted by Lloyd Binen, Silicon Valley Realtor since 1976; 408-373-4411 (Certified Realty Services) over 5 years ago

It might be true Lloyd.  But my fear is what I can't see, especially after what I can see is so frightening.

Posted by Jay Markanich, Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia (Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC) over 5 years ago

I've wondered when you see this can you report them to the county for a code violation?  It seems to me there has to be a way to keep these flippers from killing someone with their bad wiring.

Posted by Cindy Jones, Pentagon, Fort Belvoir & Quantico Real Estate News (Integrity Real Estate Group) over 5 years ago

I have not had much success with that Cindy.  And this house is in Front Royal.  They might not even have enough inspectors to be able to check into this!

Posted by Jay Markanich, Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia (Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC) over 5 years ago

Jay -- it is too bad there isn't some way an inspector's findings of this nature can't be added to the disclosure notices the seller has to provide - or better yet (but not practical) into the NMLS comments section.

Methinks you like flippers too much, you have so much fun around them.

Posted by Steven Cook (No Longer Processing Mortgages.) over 5 years ago

If buyers are intersted in a flip, I always recommend they use an inspector like yourself.  It is unfortunate that a few folks will put other's safety at risk to make more profit. 

Posted by Joan Whitebook, Consumer Focused Real Estate Services (BHG The Masiello Group) over 5 years ago

I'm thinking of making my phone ring tone the "Flipper" theme song Steven!

And safety is a great thing here Joan.  It is crucial to have inspections of this junk work!

Posted by Jay Markanich, Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia (Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC) over 5 years ago

Jay, this is why home buyers need to hire a great, knowledgeable inspector like you!

Posted by Wika Hutchinson, Broker, CRIS, SFR, CDPE over 5 years ago

Morning Jay after reading some of the comments and of course your post there isn't much to add except to say "Have a great day".

Posted by James Dray, Exceptional Agents, Outstanding Results (Fathom Realty AR LLC) over 5 years ago

Thanks Wika.  This one wasn't too hard to find though!

James - thanks.  It's snowing!  I'm dreaming of a white Easter.

Posted by Jay Markanich, Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia (Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC) over 5 years ago

I didn't know this... of course, I'm not an electrician or an inspector. But thanks for educating me... I now know what to watch out for and how to respond if this shows up on a property I sell in the future.

Posted by Nina Hollander, Your Charlotte/Ballantyne/Waxhaw/Fort Mill Realtor (Coldwell Banker Residential Brokerage | Charlotte, NC) over 5 years ago

All junctions should be inside of boxes Nina, but two high-amp appliances cannot share one circuit.

Posted by Jay Markanich, Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia (Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC) over 5 years ago

Hi Jay,

I just had a twenty minute conversation with the Realtor and seller. I had to explain to them about how the range was not installed correctly when it was wired into the wall. They had told me the installer was the local appliance shop.

They told her "I was not supposed to pull the range from the wall. It is a built in range and it is supposed to stay put"

I told her it doe'snt matter. I pulled it and you simply cannot just wire nut the electrical connection into the box in the wall without a conduit or plug assembly along without a cover for the box.

They said they were going to call the local installer and have them fix the issue.

My question is this....Should we pull the so called "Built in appliance" and see if it was installed the right way? Or simply bypass the unit and call it good if it works properly at time of inspection?

Here is a shot of the built in range as I took it.

In correct wiring on range.

Notice the common on the ground wire. Oh boy.

Have a great day in Bristow my friend.

Best, Clint mcKie

Posted by Clint Mckie, Desert Sun Home, Comm. Inspection 1-575-706-5586 (Desert Sun Home, commercial Inspections) over 5 years ago

That's cute as can be Clint!  He's a genius!  Lots of new invention there!

Fortunately he used duct tape.

Posted by Jay Markanich, Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia (Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC) over 5 years ago

Hi Jay,

So the question still remains. Do we pull the existing built in appliances?

Have a good day.

Best, Clint McKie

Posted by Clint Mckie, Desert Sun Home, Comm. Inspection 1-575-706-5586 (Desert Sun Home, commercial Inspections) over 5 years ago

Well, Clint, I say in the post that if I can move it I will.  As to this wall oven in the post, it moved simply when I opened the door!

Posted by Jay Markanich, Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia (Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC) over 5 years ago

Hi Jay,

If the unit is not screwed in place and just "sitting there" like a range thats a slide in surface mount type.

Then I want to pull the unit and see the way the unit is installed. Many are not installed the right way this is caused by the electrician knowing the inspector is not going to remove the range and check the connection behind it.

Have a wonderful day in Bristow my friend.

Best, Clint McKie

Posted by Clint Mckie, Desert Sun Home, Comm. Inspection 1-575-706-5586 (Desert Sun Home, commercial Inspections) over 5 years ago

I am not sure why the installer would say a home inspector won't move it Clint!  I move every one that I can.  I expect you do too.  These guys are dopes.

Posted by Jay Markanich, Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia (Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC) over 5 years ago

Jay, Sweetness there. Got to love when people do this type of work. Just special is all I can say.

Posted by Donald Hester, NCW Home Inspections, LLC (NCW Home Inspections, LLC) over 5 years ago

That is some creative electrical thinking there Don!

Posted by Jay Markanich, Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia (Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC) over 5 years ago

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