What I'm Seeing Now

Good morning Jay,

Obviously these Seller's did not take the saying "disclose, disclose, disclose" to heart - it's a good thing your Buyer's have you on the job!

The act of asking in Virginia shows a degree of lack of knowledge of Virginia real estate law.

"Water in the basement?"

Whom did they ask???  The seller has no responsibility to disclose, answer or even answer truthfully.

Don't any of your clients have agents?????  Someone needs to give buyers a clue.  Caveat Emptor ain't a French dessert.

Hi Jay,

"Water issues" in the basement. I'd say so. Look at the crawl space. Looks like something from the medieval times.

Looks like there would be a lot of "fixin' to do".

Have a great day and very good find. Always look everywhere.

Best, Clint McKie

In PA the seller DOES have the obligation to disclose truthfully.  That doesn't reduce the value of inspections.

Gosh, I never thought about paneling as a way to cover up water damage...I guess that's just one more thing to look out for.

Lisa - there is no disclosure in VA.  I think the agent may be required to say something if he/she knows, but I'm not sure about that.

Lenn - they asked directly because of bad history and the sellers were there!  Getting to the stair closet and crawl space was made a bit extra difficult too...

And I love flaming caveat emptor for dessert!

Clint - yeah, it's been there a while!  Difficult to get to though!

Dale - the clues added up!  They didn't bring it up to me until AFTER I had found the clues and mentioned it.

Brian - different strokes for different states!  Or something like that.

Debbie - I love wainscotting.  It is very colonial and I think adds a nice touch.  But sometimes it is installed with a purpose.

Jay, I showed a house in Hillsborough, NJ last year after our last flooding hurricane, The basement hadjust  been completely repainted(???). We asked the owners (who were at the showing) if the house had recently flooded and they said no. After further inspection we saw the water meter dial (2+ feet above basement floor) filled with water. No water in the basement?, I think not!

Good morning Jay.  As always, nothing gets past you!  Thanks for writing another interesting post.

Jay - Was there ever water in the basement? I guess that depends upon the definition of "was."

Even though Florida requires full disclosure, you better look closely because not every seller is exactly straight up... if you know what I mean. Fresh paint or wood trim, or even caulking can say alot about what is or has gone on in the home. Good catch Jay!

Carol - maybe there had been a hint of water!  Maybe.

Thanks Linda.  I arrived at that conclusion BEFORE they told me about the water question.

John - thank you Mr. Clinton.

Fred - things just added up!  And when there is a multiplicity of screws over the crawl space opening that might just be another indicator.

Jay, I listed a house a long time ago where I saw water stains on the cinder block walls. I asked if the basement floods and they said, "No, only when it rains." Another reason to hire a home inspector.

Corinne - I agree with that.  Disclosure may or may not be a help.  But an inspector can be!

Mike - good answer!  Apparently the word "flood" conjured up images that didn't fit the word "sporadic."

That scenario is an example of why sellers shouldn't be home during home inspections. Maybe they told the truth and there wasn't a flood, just a sump pump that overflowed during a storm where the power went out? Or maybe they mopped the floor heavy for several years splashing water on the walls? But if they know the basement floods somwtimes, and then lie about it when asked along with making the effort to hide the fact that it floods by painting and remodeling, caveat emptor always can't always be relied on as a defense.

They weren't home Jeff.  They met the buyers when the buyers first toured the house.  No sump pump - the house is too old.  How often do you mop under the staircase?  I agree with you, I think caveat emptor is a poor way to do anything.  I believe in the golden rule.

Looks like it to me---but then again it is a basement after all.  Isn't that just a really tall crawl space? :)

I didn't measure Charlie.  The crawl is about 4' high.  Not bad to get around in, IF you can avoid the water!  These buyers are really sensitive to water, so that was the issue.

Jay, I was referring to a basement being nothing more than a REALLY tall crawl space.  Conversely a crawl space can be a really short basement :)

I always insist on inspections by my clients.  Even with new builds.  Here's a good example.  Great post.

Very good advice.  Always ask that shelving placed against a basement wall be removed.  Surprise, surprise, a buckled wall?  What some people think they can get away with and no body will know? 

Fascinating blog, Jay!  I once sold a home, which was flooding had not been disclosured.  In fact when the question was asked, they denied it.   Sure enough, the following winter Sacramento had heavy rains.  The water in the crawl space (no basement), kept putting out the furnace.  Yep, the furnace actually dipped down quite a bit into the crawl space.  The seller had outright lied about flooding on the disclosure, but a neighbor disclosed to the buyer there had been a continual problem, and the seller had used a sump pump to clear water out of there.  The buyer took the seller to small claims court, and prevailed!

Got it Shadow.  You are right, the basement wall against that crawl is 8'.  The crawl wall against the house, WITHOUT all the erosion, would be about 4'.  So, ab=ba!  Back to that math surety!

Thanks Ken.  And especially on new builds!  My last three posts was about a new build!

C&D - the legal cases here call that "artful concealment."  And those concealing do not win in court.

Jay, always love your stories.  Good detective work on this one.  Where I reside in CA, we do not have basements for the most part, but I understand they can be a problem.  We have wine cellers!  (just kidding).

Myrl - I would think complaining about that would prevail in court!  To sell that to somebody else before correcting it is very disconcerting.

Thanks Gary.  So, don't those cellars ever flood?

Since when do we need laws that encourage or support us to tell the truth...?. Furthermore, pretend the sellers are now buyers of something. QUESTION TO THEM: Would you like to be lied to? No amount of money will replace spiritual poverty

I agree Richie.  I blogged about the Golden Rule and how much I would love to see it.  Unfortunately, as you know, we don't see it much.  Great point.

Good morning Jay. Love it when the Seller's disclosures say never water in basement yet there is water staining arould the walls. Especially when the wooden support posts are rotted 6" up. lol

Randy - maybe there, but here there are no disclosure laws!  It really is caveat emptor!  To my chagrin.

Jay,

The deception was caught in this case. I wonder how many home purchases where this goes unnoticed? The longer we are involved in this business, the more of the seller tricks we learn.

Rich

Whenever I see shiny and new in older construction, I look a bit further Richard!

It is amazing what people try to get away with. Seems pretty obvious to me from looking at the understair well picture. (Other than being updated I can't tell from the other pictures.)

The crawl space is full of water Than.  And apparently has been, probably continuously, for years.  In the rec room everything is shiny and new.

It appears the sellers didn't want to tell the truth. Lenn is right when she says someone needs to give the buyers a clue as to how things work in Virginia. Nice post today!

I agree David.  This was actually my second inspection with these buyers!  I think they know how I work!  But as to disclosure, they should know that too.

Even if a seller has no legal duty to disclose in VA, one would think that a certain moral duty exists. 

My feeling too Charlie, but I think we are in the vast minority in that regard.

Your buyers are fortunate to have a good agent to help them. It amazes me the way people can so conveniently forget what has happed in the home they live in.

Betty

I tell my sellers not to lie on the property condition disclosure and reveal any past problems and remedy they made.

Dishonest sellers. If only people would be truthful- what a wonderful world we'd have! Good job, Jay!

Jay, lots of tell tale signs left behind. In Washington State we need to disclose if it's an ongoing problem that has been corrected. Thanks for the photos. 

Jay- You come across some serious problems! I hope your clients agents are keeping their eyes open as they are showing homes. May save their buyers from even offering on a place that has issues. They're lucky they have you to do your detective work.

Thanks for sharing this story and pics, I always get amazed at what home inspectrs find that we don't always see.

Thanks for sharing yet another amazing story Jay. You sure have seen your share of interesting problems with these homes.

Houses with rust half way up the furnace and mineral deposits like lime look on the cement floor and wall make you know there has been water. At some time, lots of it.

Betty - memory is an inconvenient or convenient thing, depending!

Mike - no disclosure in VA, but that does not mean people cannot ask questions.

Steve - it would be nice if the Golden Rule was in effect!

Adrian - correcting a problem is one thing.  You are right, ongoing is another.

Amanda - sometimes it is true detective work!

Caron's Gateway - that is why we are there!  We inspectors have a different perspective.

Adam - I run across interesting stuff nearly every day!  It does make things fun.

Andrew - those are pretty good signs, and hard to hide!

I think someone tried to fix the damage Erica, but unsure if the problem is solved!

Jay, we looked at a house last night that had obvious waterproofing done to the basement. Looking at the disclosures this morning, they said there was no evidence of water. They've only been in the house since '03, so maybe the waterproofing was done before they bought it, and worked perfect. But, is this the right way to answer this question?

They had to have asked what was up with the basement when they bought it Eric.  If, that is, it was like that then.  If it was not, they know perfectly well what is up!

I always think it is best to have a home inspector like yourself look for clues.  Too many times, the seller is going to forget to disclose or minimize a water in the basement problem.

To guys like you Jay, the cover up is probably more revealing than the damage itself.

Morning Jay I see you have another ho-hum feature but I'll still send you my congrats on it.  Standing water is not good I wonder if the sale will proceed or is it dead in the water sorta speak

I think so too Joan.  And maybe sellers do minimize things because they have been living there and don't realize.

Tom - that is true.  I especially like ceilings under bathrooms repaired, sealed with Kilz and painted (one coat), which makes the Kilz very revealed.  People don't understand how many tricks I am familiar with!

Thanks James.  This is my second inspection for these folks.  The first house fell through - a disaster!  We'll see what happens here!

The old try and hide it trick. I also love when sellers are present and they stand in just the right spots to limit access.

I hear you Rob.  Once on an inspection the lady was "working" in her office and sitting at her desk.  She got up briefly to go upstairs and I quickly moved boxes she just happened to have piled there and found a huge gap between wall and floor, all the way to the outside!  Hmmm....  Going back outside I found mulch and "decorative" rocks in the way of that gap.  Hmmm....

Busted.

Busted is right. That's a good one.

She did not know I had made that discovery and was, um, surprised when she saw my report!

Jay, Lenn is right "Caveat Emptor" is not a desert. That is why every purchase of any home new or existing needs a good inspection.

Thanks Tom.  She was right!  We try in the good inspection department, we really try.